“If you want more fame you’ll never be famous enough. If you want more money you’ll never have enough.” Singer-songwriter Wallis Bird shares how she rolls.

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Who have you interviewed so far?
[00:00:02.20] I've interviewed Tim from 'James', Tim Booth.
Oh, yeah, lovely.
[00:00:08.18] [INAUDIBLE]
[00:00:09.11] [INAUDIBLE] of course, I remember, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:00:11.06] Moby.
Lovely line up.
[00:00:12.28] And Lee Fields, the soul singer.
I don't know Lee Fields.
[00:00:16.22] 69 years of age on his 16th album and just about to break through.
[00:00:23.25] Just about to make it in -
Fucking (daddy?)
[00:00:22.26] In a mainstream sense, but he's been big in kind of Southern America on a Soul Circus so he [00:00:32.04] [INAUDIBLE] amazing guy, very, very interesting, very religious.
[00:00:36.07] Great belief.
[00:00:36.19] [INAUDIBLE]
[00:00:37.14] Yeah, but he has great like great belief in it, you know, which is - So the show - Thank you so much for your time, I know you're incredibly busy and squeezed the time in, but the show is called 'Born Optimistic' so as a starting point – where are you on the optimism spectrum?
I would say I'm in Bjork-spectrum probably violently happy I would say. Absolutely everything that I draw, all my passion, energy, time, want(?), lust is drawn from optimism. That's what I grew up with and that's what I definitely see my life through as optimism for sure.
[00:01:18.11] So what would be your earliest memory of even optimism as a concept? Well if it's around you all the time you wouldn't really remark on let's say for a long time.
I think it was probably something like a - now I don't want to be drawn a memory out of nowhere but I always enjoyed - probably my earliest memory was enjoying my dad when he would, when something wouldn't go his way or a glass would break in the pub or something, he'd go 'Ah', you know? And... or if we lost something, a game or something, he would be like "Sure, it wasn't even fun anyway", you know? Those would be my early memories of not having disappointment I suppose, or feeling like 'ah, disappointed' and then him telling me 'Don't be, it's grand(?)', you know. Stuff like that I suppose.
[00:02:04.05] Great, great. So always the sunny side?
Yeah, like my dad and my mom had seven kids and I think basically I have to say that's what kept them going because they have fun, they're great fun, you know and for me, I'm very much like comedy-tragedy thing I do love both, you know, I would say I err on the side of comedy before tragedy I'd say but I definitely, yeah, it's - both are very, very loving in(to?) my life.
[00:02:33.29] So your folks definitely instilled the sunny side up outlook in you? There’s no doubt about that.
Yeah, like they haven't - I'd say at times they hadn't of been to scratch, you know, if that's not even a phrase-able [laughter]
[00:02:48.08] 'Been to scratch' - yeah, it works. [laughter]
'Been to scratch'. And like I'm - you know, my dad was working in the mines and my mom was at home minding us all and, you know, I'd say that was tough but when, you know, like, my mom was always good crack and my dad was always good crack, you know, so yeah, I think it just - they're not that, they're not down kind of people, you know, they don't let stuff get them down, they're very respectful of people, they don't like anybody to take piss, of course, but people really like my parents which I love to opt too as well, I look up to that as well, yeah.
[00:03:28.15] Like, you know, listen over your music and tracing your career and the different sounds – and you experiment with lots of different sounds – but one thing that I think has been really consistent as you've been experimenting with different sounds has been your positivity.
I'm so glad you're saying that, that's great. Yeah, like, there was a point after the second record which is a little bit angry, I was leaving Island Records and I felt like they had, you know, berated and degraded me somehow because they put me on a pedestal as a thing rather than a person, and that kind of got to me and I was young and I had an ego, so I'd say that was a very negative time of my life and that affected me greatly, it took me about two or three years to get out of that, but once I got out that the only way I said was like 'well, look, what do you want from life? If you want more fame you'll never be famous enough. If you want more money you'll never have enough money.' So, what's, actually, the most important things in life is love and happiness and health and a community, I think so, ever since then I kind of shed those shackles off monetary or success rating or stats and shit like that. And since then the only way is really been up, and now that I've come to this record I really have absolutely everything I need and so this record is just 'Thank you', you know, because it could all go tits up from here, every corner is a danger, you know?
[00:04:57.10] There is that thing, the singer-songwriter's fear that when you're happy your songs will become boring all of a sudden.
Yeah, yeah, I really don't, I like... I think that had its time and place for sure, like, you know, there is the singer-songwriter's time in Dublin when I was going to college between three and maybe let's say eight, where was like you know your hair was covering over your face and you were singing about breakups and stuff, and we all kind of fell into that trap for sure and there was this feeling that unless you were singing about very deep and sorrowful things that you weren't really taken seriously. And I did try and do that, but in the end I was just like 'Look, it's just taken too much of my energy doing this stuff' and I always... when I met up with somebody like a peer that I was a fan of or something or a musician that I've had big graw(?) for I kind of... I loved it when they were just sound, you know, or just normal, anyone I've ever met had some kind of a, you know, a thing about them that people admired. I always loved it when they were just nice and simple, yeah. So I think I kind of like tried to eek(?) that into everything that I was doing with everyone around me as well, it's more chariter(?) to be positive a little sometimes, but when you practice it enough it's very simple, yeah.
[00:06:24.29] Any tips so for people – the days the people find it hard, if there is a day you're finding it hard to be positive, how do you cheer yourself up?
Little bit of sweating, there's this lovely phrase that salt water is the cure of everything. Sweat, the sea or tears, isn't that lovely? And I think a bit of exercise get yourself, shake your body, a bit of exercise, bit of sweating or crying or, you know, jump in the sea or something like that is a good waker-uper, step out of your comfort zone and I'd say if you're blocked open, can't get something out then write like a beast, like a hypnotized beast, make fool out of yourself. If you got writer's block write through it really because nobody is going to write it for you, the page is not going to fill up itself, and even if what you're writing is... you feel like it's obsolete or just nonsense then fine, you know, you're going to come through to some to get to the other end, I think, yeah.
[00:07:23.26] For what age were you aware that this was your path?
I'd say it was... I was fourteen when I got a publishing deal offer with a really good friend of mine and we were writing music just for the love of it and we were writing really good tunes, actually, we loved it, you know, it's good, simple, teenage pop tunes, you know. They were godlike(?), and we got recognition very early and I said "Okay, so there's something to be done here for the future, you know, I mean I'm being offered a nominal fee or something, I was like "Oh, this is a thing, so that's like a job", and that was when I realized that I really loved writing with somebody else, with my best friend, but I needed to go out on my own and that I couldn't be sharing my lyrics and...
[00:08:22.20] Wow, was that a difficult decision to make?
Yeah, it was one of the... I was very young and it was very much a seldom (?) moment of my life, I had to make a big decision and I lost a friend there for a long time and that was a really big learning curve for me, one that I regret dearly because I didn't treat him well and I took the egotistical stance and said that 'I'm more important than you are' which... yeah, I regret that dearly, but yeah... Taught me an awful lot and that was the time when I kind of went out on my own and took it from there really.
[00:08:57.16] So obviously for you to get to this stage at fourteens you're offered this contract, I mean you and music, like when does that date from?
Me and music? Me and being serious about music dates from the womb, to be honest with you, I really think that I was just... I'm just a vessel and I say that really without trying to be cliché or something like that but I can't explain this need as much as I'm breathing to be doing what I'm doing. I question it of course, and I question my - why I should be or how I should be or... Of course, but in the end it's just always there, you know, and even if I've got a fever, I'm very, very seldom sick, I found that if I'm dying of a fever I'm still able to get up on stage, it's not bother, you know what I mean, the adrenaline hits you. It's just a soul or spirit or something, you know, it's been there.
[00:09:58.18] So the pre-fourteen year old Wallace, one of seven, where do you come in the seven?
I'm number six.
[00:10:03.28] You're number six? In the context of the wider family, your music is what you do all the time, are you the only one, I'm just trying to get a picture of the context of you all of a sudden - this is what you do and what that was like growing up in a, you know, typical Irish home?
Yeah, I'd say most Irish homes would know plenty people that have their priority piece at the very, very least, you know, there is always somebody who can recite something or, you know, play the spoons or whatever, you know, there's just that rhythm in the bones of the Irish people, you know. It's in the water, it's in the blood, I don't know where it is but it's there. So my dad was mad into music, my mom was mad into music and he collected vinyls and was a DJ for a bunch of years, he had, like, took his show on the road, had go-go dancers, had ???[00:10:57.13] freak/break? up the shows and stuff like that.
[00:10:59.25] Oh my god, If he had go-go dancers I'm not surprised.
Yeah, I think that's just brilliant, and he's telling me about the Perspex table that they used to stand on where lights were shining up and stuff, he really, like, he was quite...
[00:11:10.25] What was his act name, what was the...?
It was called 'Sounds International'. Yeah, my uncle is still a DJ, like, so is my dad and his brother John Claude - Burge, John Burge and they...
[00:11:23.11] John Burge? That's your uncle?
Yeah, that's my uncle.
[00:11:47.16] I've seen him DJ, he is incredible.
Very good, I'm delighted, yeah, he is really good.
[00:11:55.10] Oh, my God.
Yeah, that's so good, that's just brilliant, I'm so glad.
[00:11:37.02] He is incredible. I saw him and I was like where the hell did this guy come from?
He is brilliant, isn't he? He is the true original. The two of them were, like, traveling around and they were, they were, like, I guess heavy-hitters, you know, because they started to move into book and bands and they had like Bay City Rollers and Marianne Faithfull and she had them paint a TV white and all these weird things, you know. Had to take her offstage because she was too Baloobas and they have all these great stories, you know. Yeah, it's really interesting, I found out recently that my grandfather on my mother's side was a Jared Thompson was a - Jimmy, Jim Thompson, he was a political singer in Meath, he used to write songs to rail off (?) the politicians in Meath. So I found out that recently, that was interesting.
[00:12:26.16] So, if you're dad has toured the country with go-go dancers and Perspex tables the idea of you, like, you know, with a guitar singing your heart out is positively square... You, like, reacted against your dad.
I didn't mean to or anything, I suppose I would've been in it, yeah, like, yeah, that's true, you know.
[00:12:50.01] You were rebellion.
Yeah, I guess I was a bit square, yeah, and I suppose I should take my dad's kind of gumption for that, like Perspex and stuff, go-go dancers, that sounds amazing to me, like, I'd love to hang out with that guy, you know, and, yeah, here I am trying to folk people up with a guitar, you know.
[00:13:08.15] You do have a groove though.
I love the groove
[00:13:11.24] There's a groove to what you do so...
Thanks very much, yeah.
[00:13:13.25] That must have come from those international gigolos you're hearing the sound beating through the, beating through the floor.
My dad was always playing soul and, like, traditional music when it gets going, it's got such a vibrant groove on it, you know, like Sharon Shannon and then, oh yeah, like when it hit you just can't miss the groove, like, you know, they're just metronomes and it's all feel. Irish traditional had a lot to do with it as well, I would say, yeah.
[00:13:43.13] Wow, that's amazing, John Burnham, I'm trying to remember where I saw him DJ and it was completely out of context, it wasn't like in a hip context I saw him, but I just like 'who is this guy? Where did he come from?'
He's got a great radio voice, hasn't he? He's got the tunes, man, he's, yeah, he's... all the... well, back then, he was called 'the golden oldie' but they're just the tunes, they're just the best ones really.
[00:14:09.12] Forgive me for not knowing and I hope I'm not prying, but you speak about your dad in the past tense, has he passed away?
No, no, no, no, my dad is still... he's alive and kicking.
[00:14:15.28] Oh, you keep saying things the past tense and I'm like... I was like...
I'm sorry, do I?
[00:14:19.00] I was like 'Oh, my God, has he passed away?' I'm sorry.
Hi, dad.
[00:14:21.22] Well that's good news...
You better not die, okay, dad?
[00:14:25.16] That's such good news because, you know, it's such a tear for people.
Oh, my God, stop, I mean I've so much grav(?) for my parents, I'm like, yeah, so much time for them, they're very cool, like, you know, they did things, like, they started drinking Dutch Gold when everybody was like 'Don't be drinking that because it's not class', and they were like 'Class is from within, alright, you know, it's not in a can'. Yeah, they're just really cool people.

[00:14:56.06] What made them so cool? Let's go back a generation. What made them so cool?
I have no idea, they're just - I have the feeling that they're very educated people, but that's by choice, you know, they left school when they were young and they're educated in their choices because they - all of their friends and all of their relatives are all mad, you know, so you would've got up to all sorts of mischief and then you have to be quick on your feet and that's an education. And they're, like I've said, they're jokers of the pack so, you know, there's a lot of, you know, tragedy and comedy there, that's an education. And they had to learn about - I'd say they're just very clever humans, like, they're great fun, that's what I mean, they're not snoochie(?), they're not above anybody and they always say people have face value and ask for respect and give respect and I suppose, yeah, I suppose that's where they're coming from, that's a lovely education that they have, you know, I think. Life.
[00:15:57.09] Back to you, the context of your siblings, you know, you're living the artist's life so that, you know, that decision, like, was it a conscious moment, was it something you drifted into, you seem to never have entertained any other possibility?
I haven't until now I suppose, actually. When I didn't want to get a job because I knew I'm useless at that, you know, service jobs and stuff like that is a gift that I love that I will never be able to have and fortunately I think you're born with it, like, and I don't have that and I did terribly in school as well and just my points were very low and I didn't have any interest in school, to be honest with you.

[00:16:43.09] Why?

I don't know... I want to be out there learning it for myself rather than reading it from a book, to be honest, and the stuff that - like, I love working with my hands, my dad built his own house and he learned that from himself, you know, my mom and dad they did everything, everybody have to just, kind of, do the wrong thing and learn as they make mistakes as they go. Some people are academics and I'm not, I have to say, you know, that's just my way, really.

[00:17:13.02] You don't take somebody else's solutions of the shelf? You're not interested in that?
Well, if it's down to electronics and shit like that ??? and get myself ??? stupid ... No, I mean, like, stuff like learning music or something, that's, you know, that's practice and a gift and there's plenty that I can't be learning I should be because you have - everybody has inner gifts, you don't have to be good at one thing, you can be brilliant and kind of okay at a thousand things and that's just as good, like. I'd love to - yeah, I didn't have any other option until now because I was useless in school and I just thought 'well, you know, music is kind of not really a theory-driven thing unless I'm doing jazz and I'm not good enough, you know, that's for jazzers.'
[00:18:03.12] But you were 'useless' in school, as you say, not did well on your exams, but obviously not short of intelligence. Were you aware of that, did you feel down on yourself that you didn't do well at school, did it bother you?
I suppose it did, like when you're looking at your - It did and then absolutely it didn't. Like, when I was looking at my friends and they had so much pressure put - not pressure, when they got there, when they received their allocated points or whatever they received from finishing a course or college or school - that they were like 'I could've done better' or 'I’ve done as well as I've could', I was like 'What's the point pressuring yourself over a stupid, one stupid week of exams from the rest of my life', I was like 'Surely that's wrong way to test me', you know. What's that phrase you can't test a fish how high can it climb a tree kind of thing, you know? So I always knew that there were just ways to get in and around life, like life is not just based around rules and, you know, we learn - we're all learning as we go along, like there is boundaries and steps that we can take to better ourselves but that's not the only way, you know.
[00:19:12.28] So do you ever worry about the future?
I worry about my loved ones and they will be, that would be my main worries, you know, losing loved ones and I worry that I'm not treating the people in my life well enough, that be the kind of thing that keeps me up at night and I'd like to treat my team well, I'd like to see them not struggle and I'd like to see them enjoy what they're doing and feeling like they're getting something out of it. Those are the kind of things that keep me up at night. But for the future I suppose I'm okay with death, like, I'll be scared, obviously, if I'm, you know... but maybe not, you know. I'm okay with that stuff, you know, life we're here, we're gone, you know, life is long, I'm not worried, to be honest, I'll always find a way really, that's my kind of way of looking at life, I'll always find a way, yeah.
[00:20:10.14] Can do?
Yup, can do, will do.
[00:20:13.18] Well that's a thing, I mean, like, I often think of, you know, when I think of somebody who puts themselves out there literally, you know, honest age bare in your heart for better or worse, you literally put yourself out there, that's what you do.
Yeah, yeah. Have to say though there is a trick to it because - I learned a great thing from a guy called David Hetterman, he's a painter living in Berlin, he's a wonderful guy, he said that he gives 90% of himself because if he gives his a 100% what does he got for himself? When I heard that then that changed everything for me so I was like 'Yeah, well that makes a whole lot of sense’, because even physically when I'm playing the guitar too hard, if I'm going for a guitar take in a studio or something, it's like play the guitar really hard and then I listen to it back and it just sounds better if I pull back that tiny little bit because the string can resonate, you know, just pulling back in reflection I think it's good.
[00:21:16.13] So do you know at any one time what's in that 10% that you're keeping back for yourself, or does it change, or is there like a certain bit of your life that you've ring-fenced, I mean, like, or is it a malleable thing, this concept?
I'd say it's malleable, alright, I'd say that's the point of the mistakes and how you deal with the mistakes I'd say, yeah. Like, do you know when you hit a bum note, what is it Michael - Miles Davis said about - Herbie Hancock was playing and he, you know, he's perfectionist and he's a wonderful player, you know, he's maestro, he hit a dirty bum note and Miles Davis went for exactly the same bum note to just say there is no wrong notes and that's a wonderful thing, you know. So, you know, relax, it's all good, I know you're amazing, don't be ..., don't do it again! But, yeah, leaving space for the mistakes and the bum notes because sometimes there can be a real glimpse of beauty come out of that and a real good idea can come out of mistakes.
[00:22:12.24] I think, in many respects, just based on the last few minutes It's - you - if you ever do anything wrong I think you're going to be the first one to point at it.
Yeah, yeah, oh god yeah! I kind of laugh it off or go for it the second time around and see if it sticks, you know. Yeah, jeez, pointing out mistakes of people's is, oh, holier-than-thou, then smite, you know, you get struck down or something - don't be pointing at people's mistakes, that's just a really bad trait.
[00:22:45.21] That's funny like this struck down, like, when you think of all of the religious metaphors that we're all steeped in and no matter how we live our daily lives there's no taking them out of us.
Yeah, well, yeah, it's engrained.
[00:23:02.22] And I'm trying - it's kind of weird sometimes I've become aware of it when, like, I - I almost use them, (let's) say sarcastically, but, like, things that my granny would've said that, you know, Lord Mother, Divine Mother intercieve between us and all (harm) or whatever – and I'll be saying that around the kids and they'll be looking at me, like, 'what do you mean?' and they wouldn't get the original reference, like, for me I'm paying homage to my granny as much, as much as anything else but it's just like when you talk about being smite and struck it's like all this stuff that's just in us and what I was going to ask you was, you know, you're an Irish person currently not living in Ireland which means you're in a great position to talk about what's so great about us, what you miss about Ireland, what you don't miss because you have that perspective.
Yeah, yeah, people ask, yeah, it's funny that you mention that about it, when you try and get rid of it just comes back even fourfold, doesn't it, it's just like - what do I - So is the question what do I love about Ireland or what do I miss or religiously or...
[00:24:07.04] Well I'm just curious what is your perspective - no, just your perspective, you know, you're here quite a bit but you're not living here so obviously you've got that perspective the people who are here all the time don't have.
Yeah, I mean I love Ireland, there's so much to love about Ireland and because I'm away I suppose it gets a bit more romanticized as well. I'm really proud of Ireland right now and - I swear to God, you know, like, coming out the other end of all of the shame and all of the relentless power grip and death grip that the Catholic church had over Ireland is quite a thing, you know, and people to come through based on love, I think that's an absolutely beautiful thing, you know. So Ireland's really topping it right now, it just got a great soul and a great conscious right now, you know, because it had to as well, you know, there is huge belief but I think belief is moved into humans now and seeing it as... you know, seeing it to believe it, you know, seeing human nature and believing that it's okay to be, like, very different from everybody else, you know, you want to dye your hair purple in one hair and then shave the rest of your head or you want to do this stuff or the other, you know what I mean.
[00:25:32.00] So you see that we have changed quite a lot?

God, yeah.
[00:25:36.21] What time frame are you talking?
I would say like Ireland has kind of definitely over the last two years since the marriage referendum I would say that Ireland has outdone itself, it clips itself in terms of allowing people to unburden themselves of some kind of a shame or guilt or something that they're supposed to be feeling, and now people can take their belief about the religion and it's just a fight however they want to treat it - if they want to be angry or if they want to believe in it ironically or if they want to see where they’re at or if they just believe because 'what else?' I think you're allowed now, you know.
[00:26:23.11] And it's that short, like it's literally the last two years, you think? It's interesting.

I would say, well there's been that enormous shifts since the referendum, you know, like a -
[00:26:32.18] Because I live in a liberal bubble, so I don't necessarily see the shifts.
Okay, I mean, yeah, we see what's around us, don't we, and we all have our little bubbles for sure. Even the countryside has changed, like, I'm from the countryside, I'm from a really small village with about 500 people in it called Galbally(?) and I always was kind of just, like, myself and I saw that as growing up, people were judging me and I says 'Why are you judging me? You like me and I like you so why are you doing that?'
[00:27:14.14] And what age were you aware of being judged and reacting that way?
I guess I was about eleven, yeah, you know, goes back to, I'm 34 now and I guess when I was eleven you could see people treating me different because I was fundamentally into music and into weird things and kind of just a little bit taught a bit freely and I didn't judge people as most people were expected to do in a small town, I think, and turns out that we all felt the same way. That's a beautiful little bubble that Galbally, the village of Galbally, I think it's something like Ballydehob or something in the west, you know, where they're quite open minded. But I think in general Ireland is quite open minded because it's had so much pud in front of it that it decides it's own fate, I think.
[00:28:04.19] But I think back to when I was young and I think for me one of the greatest changes is how we're not as past-remarkable.
It's fab, oh, my God, I love that.
[00:28:15.29] So when I was a kid, like, every single thing that stood out was disgusting, if somebody had worn leg longer than the other they were the town freak and it's like - and when I (think) back and I look back at oh, there's blah blah the-limp or whatever they called it, I was like...
'Why do say that?'
[00:28:34.05] But the leg was just 6 inches shorter than the other, what does that tell you about their personality?
Yeah, nothing.
[00:28:40.20] When you look back, it's just a litany of it, that's just one I could name a hundred examples of that, and that's for me - we don't do that anymore, we don't point at somebody and go 'There's the blah-blah' or 'There's the blah-blah'.
Yeah, yeah, you don't define the people thought their...
[00:28:55.03] Through their whatever.
[00:28:58.18] And what does it tell you about somebody’s personality?
It tells you more about the person saying the thing.
[00:29:03.01] When I was a child that was everywhere all the time.
[00:29:09.01] And that for me, that... I couldn’t tell you when that ended.
Could you not know?
[00:29:15.16] No, but I've just kind of been thinking about, you know, my youth compared to my children's youth and all this stuff that we took a second nature that we would say what other people - it just doesn't get said now.
Yeah, yeah. God, that's - It feels - I don't want to put words in your mouth, but do you miss that?
[00:29:35.29] Oh no, no, it's not about missing it at all, I mean, like, to be honest…
Was it something fruitful or...?
[00:29:42.01] No, it was a waste of energy, because that energy that went to that could have been spent on something else, so the energy is spent on judging someone on the fact that one of their legs is 6 inches shorter than the other, you could put that energy into getting to know them.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:29:59.01] You know, basic, basic stuff, you know.
Do you know what, there’s backlash towards that as well because a lot of people... I talk to friends about how stuff has become too PC and I’m like ‘What’s become too PC?’ For example, naming – saying that something’s gay,’ Oh, that’s so gay’, I was like ‘Could you not use that word?’ and they were like “Oh, come on, I’ve been using it my whole life’, and I was like ‘Okay, but you're saying that who I am fundamentally is terrible or disgusting or funny or weird or something'.
[00:30:32.20] A negative term.
A negative term, I was like 'You can surely find another word for it', and they were like 'Ay, I suppose' and I was like 'That's amazing, if that little thing could just change, simply just don't say the thing that, you know, you can just’ - I think because more people are judging the person that's saying the derogatory thing rather now then people might not agree with you if something bad say about somebody because we've all been on the end of that, somebody saying something terrible about you.
[00:31:02.21] Sure.
And it's just nobody needs that.
[00:31:05.23] But I would say the key thing is to allow everyone the opportunity to change.
[00:31:12.10] And just because you used to say something that wasn't right you don't have to say it anymore and we won't hold it against you.
Yeah, yeah.
[00:31:21.21] Like an amnesty of sorts. I've read something last year, one of the reasons why a lot of people get pushed off in environmental issues is that the people on the environmental side make them feel bad or stupid for not doing X, Y and Z and then it's easier for people to retreat into a defensive state and go the opposite way than it is. And all of these things are supposed to know about how to be green, or how to be PC, you know, that I think you have to be careful, like, one society has to be careful in terms of - you need to just bring people along, but I see everything as a sliding scale and everything gets better all the time. That's kind of how I, like, I see progress as just that, I mean, for me every single thing we do and enjoy is built on things that previous people had to endure on our behalf.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, you'd hope that you come out the other end of that with something positive to give somebody else as well then. A lot of people would say 'What do you think then about people saying the old times were better’?
[00:32:26.24] I mean, look, you have one life to live and it is now so you have to live it, that's my answer to that. I don't desire the past or the future, you know, what can you do, you have now, and which, I mean, brings us back to optimism, but also brings me to your song 'Home' which, for my money, is possibly one of the greatest love songs of all time, like I can see that being played at a lot of weddings. It's just incredible. It's absolutely incredible. And I know you didn't write it so it gets played on lots of weddings, that probably wasn't your aim, maybe it was, I don't know.
That's beautiful, that's amazing, wow, I don't know what to say, that's lovely, thank you.
[00:33:18.24] It's a great song, it's a really, really great song.
Oh, man, it's funny, that catches me, man, like that song came out of nowhere, the first lines of the songs are 'All I ever wanted was to settle down and marry, laugh and love and hopefully have a child' and I remember going 'What!? What is this, what is happening' [laughs] and I was like 'Stop thinking, just keep singing!'. I wrote it all in one take really and it was - it's the lyrically - everything I think for me it's the song that I could... swan song, I suppose, yeah, yeah, yeah. Always wanted to write a ??? [00:33:56] song and never had, never got the thing, you know, and I wrote it for my parents, really.
[00:34:06.12] So it's not even about you necessarily?
It's very much about me but it's just kind of highlighting the love song - the love actually, just the love that I've been searching this whole damn time, you know, I've had lovely practice and now it's just like I think I've hit the jackpot and I've always wanted that big love that my parents have, they're married for 43 years and I just always wanted that, you know.
[00:34:40.22] And do you think that you've nailed your colours ... children ... your hat over the wall ???
Well, funnily, you know, it was like that subject came up and it was like 'Do you want children?' and I was like 'I don't have to', you know? I love children, you'll always find me hanging out with the kids at the party, like, you know, I just, I mean, I can't live without them, but I think actually having kids, I don't know, we don't have to, I suppose. I mean it's modern, we're modern women now, I suppose.
[00:35:11.22] But it's interesting about how , you know, we evolve and our learnings evolve and how we treat each other evolves, but then there's basic wirings -
[00:35:21.06] What happens to them? That's something that I wonder about sometimes is, you know, like, so, I wonder sometimes - If in forty-years time it will not be acceptable for somebody to be interested in somebody else based on their looks. Is that a possible conclusion?
You're going to have to lobotomize people. I mean, that's basic -
[00:35:45.05] But is that a logical end to ??? I mean, I don't know.
Why not, why not, you know, I mean, I wouldn't like to live in that world I have to say, but why not, let’s hope that the current flow of political energy is not going to leave us down that lobotomized 1984-way or something.
[00:36:05.21] But when I was a kid you had to be ex high (?) to be a guard.
Yeah. But there's a sense to that.
[00:36:14.29] And now you don't.
[00:36:16.15] So when I was a kid your physical size had an influence as to how you fared in life.
Mhm, mhm.
[00:36:25.03] Your importance, your ability to protect yourself, your ability to earn - that has now being removed from the equation, it's gone.
Mhm. It's a good thing as well, I suppose, yeah, it's a good thing, so why not? Yeah.
[00:36:37.17] But then if you look at looks and attractiveness and the amount of importance we place on that. Some of it is intrinsic and, you know, the golden ration and all that type of stuff, some of it is amplified, have you heard of the golden ratio?
Is it a Fibonacci code? Yeah? Okay.
[00:36:54.10] Yeah, that this idea that, you know, we relate to symmetry and -
Oh, symmetry and all, okay, yeah.
[00:36:58.02] …and all that type of stuff. And some of it then is, you know, like humans when they realize something works, then they keep repeating the bit that works because they know it works, and you can call that makeup or the fashion industry or, you know. So what's for blowing up and what's for keeps? You know, which bits do we hang on too, which bits do we not hang on to?

I'd say... Wow, great one! I think that individuality is certainly on a hype right now. Like, we're on a peak of people being allowed to look and feel and do and sound and be who they are, I think that's great, and usually what goes up comes down, isn't that really like history starts to repeating itself and then people go 'Right, you just must look a certain way and there's a certain style now.' But a I think we, with the basis of large, like, conformity through capitalism and stuff like that. Mass production of clothes or a look or, you know, vanity and magazines and all of that shit, that's kind of led us down the track of that we almost had a certain thing like physical attributes of, like, being a certain height for the Guards, I can understand that, but it's good that's also gone. There perhaps should be something about physical fitness in the Guards, don't you think? If you want to run after somebody or run away? Surely, I mean...
[00:38:29.18] But I guess the point is, or what I’m trying to say is everything is up for grabs, like everything and so we don't know now today what bits we look back on. So when I was a kid and back to the person being remarked upon because one leg was 6 inches longer than the other, I never imagined as a child, I never thought about it, I never imagined when I was an adult that that behaviour would be just considered weird, I never questioned it.
Yes, wow, okay, fuck, I know what you're saying, you just took that and then it just kind of dissolved or something?
[00:39:01.23] Yeah, so what else we do now that -
What are we doing now...? What do you think?
[00:39:07.20] I mean, like, I'd be too wacky to give answers [laughter] or to prescribe the future because I don't think...
You're such a lovely interview, you're asking such wonderful questions. I'm imagining that you'd have a very lovely insight into.
[00:39:24.19] Yeah, well, I mean to be honest what you said about some things going up and some things going down, it's like glass is half full, glass is half empty, you know, the optimistic side of me disagrees with you and the pessimistic side of me agrees with you, but I think we get better all the time, I think...
I love that thought, that's great, go on, sorry.
[00:39:45.19] No, no, that is the point, really, you know, that, like, we're the only species on the planet for all our faults we're the most complex species, but we create these worlds and if you think of every single thing that we enjoy we have no idea what humans went through for to get to the stage where we can enjoy it, like, okay, banana is relatively straightforward, trial and error with fruit, but, you know, even (further down in Adria?) the guy in Spain making all these, you know, foods out of foam(?) like we're almost, we're always trying out things to try and make them better.

Do you have an utopian idea of what you could imagine would be the sublime moment in human history...
[00:40:29.12] Oh, God.
[00:40:30.10] ...that we should reflect and go 'Right, that's amazing'? Do you have an idea of that?
[00:40:34.06] Well for me the big question we have to answer is what are people going to do with their time. I think that's going to be huge because the idea of a job as a concept is changing really, really fast, so I think that's going to be huge and I think we could be in a situation in thirty-years time where people have a lot more free time...
[00:40:58.08] And so it will be very interesting to see how that evolves and how that's used. Some people would see that as negative and there's a lot of people with free time at the moment who may not have a positive lifestyle, but there's an opportunity to see that in a positive sense so that's a big question we need to answer.
That's interesting, like, In Berlin where I'm living most people are, kind of, homeless or - not homeless, but there's a lot... but work-workless, oh, my God, my English. Lots of people don't have jobs or they have a thousand jobs, you know what I mean, they're just kind of working and earning their thing and they're not worried about, it's so cheap to live there, let's just say, that you have free time, and that kind of opens up your senses to hanging out with friends or hang out on your own and it gives you time to think and it's, for me, when that's taken away from me, that's not good, you know?
[00:41:51.21] So you're living in the utopian future? Tell us, tell us what is like.
It's amazing, it's so beautiful! That would be really beneficial, I think, to people to have more time.
[00:42:06.15] So how does it work in Berlin, you know, for so many people who don't live there it's this place where people get to do what you've described, I mean, how does that work, what's shakedown so?
[00:42:20.05] You've just said 'a thousand jobs or no jobs', 'cheap to live' and...
Well, since the fall of the Berlin Wall it's been extremely poor and it's full of people who are, oh, I don't want to be tearing everything, but it was poor, full of entertainment because people had nothing else and, you know, it's very dark as well as light entertainment, I mean, they're very liberal about sex, about their body, freedom of choice and, you know, don't - you've no place to judge me, I've come through a lot to get to where I am. So that in itself is just, you know, an extreme boiling point of art then, you know, because all the best comes out of the poverty, really, I think, never came out of money. And yeah, just like the freedom of time, the luxury of time, people walk slower, animals are everywhere, there is no - most people don't wear watches, do you know what I mean, there is no substance in time, you know, everything is open all the time, kids are timeless, they're always there, you walk into a night club and the kids are there, do you know what I mean, and just there's this sense as well of danger like if you fall over and break your neck because you didn't realise that there's a cliff there, you're a fucking idiot and that's your problem, that's not the government's problem, you can't sue us.
[00:43:50.20] It's not going to the high court?
No, stuff like that, you're absolutely responsible for your life and other people's lives, it's a conscionable decision what you do effects other people, and that's really interesting thing about Berlin. What you do is not just your own, you have to think about other people every step that you take, like if you rent a flat, for example, the landlord has more care on - you have more strength than the landlord so you can live there longer, you can squat the place basically because everybody should have a roof over their head, so the person renting the house is more - has more strength, do you know what I mean? Because everybody needs a house over their head and you have to look after, and if you're signing insurance you're signing insurance for your neighbour, not for yourself, because if your pipe bursts and ruins your neighbour's house that's not your neighbour's problem so they can't - they're not going to pull it out of their pocket so you have to pay for that, do you know what I mean? Stuff like that, like just thinking about others.
[00:44:51.14] But then, they would say I can imagine now if it comes up about bringing these laws in the Ireland they'd say 'well, why would anyone become a landlord if the tenants have such rights?', like, how does that, you know...
It would certain - some things got to change because the houses being built in Ireland are shit, and the houses that I've lived in Ireland are, like, I've lived in some paper-thin, crap houses for unbelievable expense and that has to shift big time. There's people - I mean, come on, look at Apollo house, like, you know what I mean, this house is sitting there.
[00:45:21.07] But in Berlin, like, how do - why would somebody be a landlord, what incentivizes them?
They don't - there's not really a lust to be a landlord, people just did it because it wasn't a winning game, it's wasn't a monetary game, really, it's just like something to do to keep you float, really, that was it for a long time, and now because that Berlin has become so complimentary and so mainland European and cosmopolitan that people have started to just buy up enormous houses which is the usual thing that was happening across Europe and just homogenising in a kind of dulling, dulling that kind of sense that of house owning, do you know what I mean?
[00:46:01.23] And is Berlin changing?
It is, yeah, everywhere is changing, everywhere is changing, everywhere is - everywhere needs to cop on, I think. There's just a grand idea that, you know, I need to be richer than everybody else, we need to lose it all to come back and see what we have and count our pennies before we count our pounds, like, I think, yeah, I think the whole world is cop on because it's just moving in a flux of lack of (lifework/worth?)
[00:46:28.05] And how do you get that into the world's mind? What do you say to them or how do you shake the world out of it?
Not gratifying wealth, not listening to celebrities, not paying attention to celebrities or the wealth of people I think it's - would be a great place to start, to start looking upon the most vulnerable and the most in-need as being the most important thing in society, the most important people in society, like, you know, lesser-abled, old folks, children and sick people, they should be the most important, the most looked-after people and not money or status or all that stuff that kind of eats away at the fabric of what's fundamentally important in life which is, like, say love, happiness, peace.
[00:47:27.06] But it seems to be the shiny bubbles that work with people, you know...
Yeah, yeah, the magpie.
[00:47:34.23] You're competing against that, I'm not even saying it's your mission because it kind of leads me to, you know, what do you try and put into people, like, what do you want people to feel or do or think because you exist, or do you expect that at all, are you just playing songs that you happen to like, I mean, when you do your thing what are you hoping to leave in your wake or are you hoping to leave anything in your wake, I mean, I don't know, you may not.
Yeah, odd(?)...
[00:48:02.07] You don't have to.
Imagine I wasn't, yeah, I suppose I don't have to, sure, I'm here and I'm gone. No, I'm absolutely pushed into positivity, that's my whole life like you say, optimism and positivity because I'm just like - I'm a certain person that is extremely positive and I'm always pushing the idea that it's not about how much is it in your pocket or what you're wearing or how you look or who you are with or whatever, it's just about how you are, how you treat people with love and if you're treating people well, I think that's the main things in life, so I've always been pushing that and...
[00:48:34.19] But how do you stay positive when you see things around you that you don't like that...
You don't buy, you don't buy, you know, just stuff like supply and demand, you know, if you buy the magazines there's going to be another one the shelf next thing, don't buy into it and question it and actively question and I would say active discrimination, positive discrimination, like, if you want to change the world and you want to make the world a bit more feminist then actively positively discriminate and hire a woman, that will change the balance, stuff like that. Or if you want to be a better person then actively discriminate and choose not to do the wrong thing and choose to do the right thing and that could be not buying a Nestle product , or that could be not voting for somebody or that could be turning off the TV like the inauguration, the protest in itself is turn off your TV and not watch Donald Trump get, you know, voted in, just don't give him the time. Journalists don't talk about him, you know, stuff like that, I think actively not doing something is just as good as doing something, I think as well.
[00:49:42.05] Well I guess, as well, I mean...
That's a simplified version.
[00:49:45.05] No, but I think what you're - I'm not trying to paraphrase what you're saying, but it's also the idea of - just because you disagree with somebody why should you have to react to them?
Oh, yeah.
[00:49:59.07] Just do the thing that you believe in and focus on, I mean, when you think back to Ireland sixty, seventy years ago like until - there's one of the Ireland's islands until 1963 was completely self-sufficient, every single thing they consumed was produced on the island down to their shoes, everything, and they didn't really worry about who the president of the USA was, they did their thing, they lived their life and now we have globalization and enough for so many opportunities and so many positive opportunities, but like one of the reasons why I'm - I suppose, the core reason why I'm doing this show is that, you know, what I'm trying to find out is, I'm trying to find out how people live their lives and how to people cope with what they know.
[00:50:45.21] You know, how do you cope with what you observed and still stay on the path because, that's the thing, I mean, that's for me one of the hardest things about being an optimist is that sometimes you're kind of lying to yourself.
[00:50:58.03] Sometimes you're kind of lying to others but you do it and, you know. So I mean for me the point of the show is that I get to speak to people I hope that information or tips or strategies or coping mechanisms will somehow be transmitted.
Oh, my God, what a good thing you're doing. Really.
[00:51:20.04] Oh, well, I'll add it up in editing(?), don't worry about that.
No, I, like, I love what you said about progress as well, like the movement of time and this Earth that what we're doing is a progress and I completely agree with that, because we're not assigned to anybody, we assign ourselves to a belief or a thing or a person and stuff like that, but actually, like, we don't even know if we're one entity, we know we're on the planet and we evolve together and we're an organic system and I suppose that we are one in the fundamental sense, and so progress is us(?) moving, you know, so that's progress and stay optimistic.
[00:52:09.28] And put it in a song. You know, like, you know, when you think about the personal, the political - I just think sometimes it's whole - it's not about perspective, you know, that you - I was watching this video the other day of you and Amanda Palmer on stage in Australia and I was, kind of, going, literally, 'I never would have put the two of them on the same stage.' And...
[00:52:43.28] And I don't know what I meant by that, I was like 'whoa, there's two worlds colliding.' and I thought it was great the props, I was proud of you, that was it.
[00:52:55.11] It was pride, I saw Amanda Palmer on stage in Australia giving you props and I was going 'right on!'
That was unexpected. I thought the same as you, like, you know, I mostly know her through her activism, you know, and who she is as a person rather than her music, not rather than, more I know her as a person more than her music and then when she got up there and then I saw her playing with my own eyes, you know, two feet in front of me I was like 'Oooh, I get it'.
[00:53:26.25] She's actually an artist, not an activist.
Yeah. She was that first, but over time she's just like put her entire self in, she's just certain for a life that's better for all - everybody, really, and she just wants to connect, like, she's such coolbozer(?), very generous human, she doesn't have to do that to all, you know, she doesn't have to be nice to me, but she just wants to buzz off people that she's into and that worked for the both of us, we just met each other and we hit it off straight away, you know? That was - came out of nowhere, yeah.
[00:54:02.13] Do you meet many people that you don't hit it off with?
No, I mean, the occasional person and I'm fairly quick off the mark I'll be like 'Don't have time, I have to,' you know, I've, like, your first instinct is usually right – isn't it? – about people, so I do love giving people time, especially people that I don't agree with or something like that, I do love that now, but in general if it's somebody that we kind to get on but there - there's some kind of acid in there you're just fundamentally not going to reach a certain point of... I don’t know.
[00:54:39.03] Do you have any unrealised dreams or ambitions?
I'd love to be - now this sounds so esoteric but I'd love to go down the root of healing. I've always really liked massaging people, I get a great feeling from that and it really helps me and I've received massages and I know how much they help me so I love doing that for people, so I think I have something in me that I like helping people physically. I'd love to go down that root of kind of seeing the possibility, also think I've got a little bit of a psychic trait in me, my family of kind of foreseeing things and - right, in the big picture and also, like, tomorrow, you know, something is going to happen to you and then it happens, you know. I think we're little bit - it's not - it's more than self-fulfilling prophecy, it's kind of just uncanny.
[00:55:41.00] And does that happen on a regular basis?
No, I’ve tried to avoid it because it freaks me out, actually, so I wouldn't mind...
[00:55:49.24] So you do the opposite of channelling, you try and...
Yeah, when I tried to channel at one night I was getting visited by all sorts of for a week, I was like 'I'm not ready for this at all now', I was starting to open my head up to the possibility of people trying to contact me through the Aether, you know, and then that freaked the f... hell out of me and - but I wouldn't mind getting into that someday and kind of taking a bit of time out to see what that's about.
[00:56:15.19] How do you think that works like the - you mentioned the Aether, like...?
How do you open up the Aether?
[00:56:30.11] Like when you say, you know, people see things or know things, like, what do you think is going on when that happens?
I think good start to that would just be to say like 'I know absolutely nothing', then you can only go from there, really. Chance, allowing chance to happen is not trying to put rules or, you know, not trying to control stuff, letting go of control in a daily life in small ways and allowing people's personalities to affect your day is an interesting ??? [00:57:06.06], believing that there's more than the - you know, I think just believing in the not-known, yeah, and the all-knowing.
[00:57:13.26] So it's more about the way of being than it is about connecting to some unseen dimension, it's like...
You can do that, you can practice to get into it first you are like... There are things like crystals and there's chanting and breathing is the most simplistic fundamental way to get into hypnotic state and that's like, if you breathe and hypnotise yourself long enough then you will go into a physical or other state, so that's a very simplistic way of doing that as a human but like...
[00:57:45.17] Have you done that, have you used breathing?
Yeah, I mean I was starting to get into exercising through stretching, slowly and Qigong and that's the searching for the energy within and moving energy around you through your - basically, you have energy within and you bring it out and you move it and you shape it, kind of, in way. Exercises was - I started to get really into that and that made me feel connected with myself and then connected with a bigger picture, I suppose, yeah.
[00:58:24.14] And is this as, you know, you started of mentioning massage and so is this like an awareness of a new space that's developed over time that you feel yourself thinking about more and more and more?
Yeah, for sure, like with this record I was kind of writing and going 'I have no interest to be doing this the whole time', it's very narcissistic and it's just cyclical and I get so much out of it, don't get me wrong, I really love what I'm doing and probably nobody loves it more than I do, I'm ridiculous, I'm so happy to be doing this, and so therefore I've pushed it really hard that I went 'Look, come on, there has to be a different kind of cerebral way', like, and then I started wanting to be more physical, I wanted to get a normal job working in labour, I'm really into that now, and then I also, I just want to kind of like to be a - I'd love to practise to be a good counsellor or something like that, you know, I'd love something like that, yeah, that would be cool actually.
[00:59:28.04] When you say 'working in labour' what do you mean?
Shift and dirt and sweating and shovelling shit and - I mean I'm not, I've - that kind of thing, I love labour. Getting my hands dirty and helping people out. I love... I'm strong so I'm not like...
[00:59:48.26] I thought you meant midwifery or the Labour party.
Oh, right!
[00:59:53.01] Like, working in labour.
Delivering babies in the Labour party.
[00:59:59.08] Delivering babies for Labour party TDs and ministries while shovelling shit in the afternoons.
There's a whole other future now.
[01:00:08.16] So with that mean to say then that, you know, that once this cycle is complete, I mean, you've - this is the first date - Dublin is the first date of a whole other leg, like a long, long European tour, does that mean once this cycle is over, you're not going to create another cycle, you want to see what happens?
It's in my head, I need to work for other people, I'm not - I'm kind of done doing my own things for myself now, I'd really love to do something for somebody else now because I think I'm just... I've done this now and I realized I'm not a good session player, I'd never be able to be in somebody’s band so I need to be able to do that, you know. I can't expect the world on a stick from other players in my bend if I can't do that for them, you know, so that's something that I'd really like to learn. And I think it's a gift as well I said that earlier but I'd love to be able to be good in service jobs because you're never out of the job, you know, if you're able to look after somebody or even be a nurse or something like that, like, these are gifts that you get.
[01:01:15.18] Do you feel you've hit the bottom of the well, or are you aware that there is a bottom now?
I did hit a bottom of a well when I - before I started writing this last record and my management said 'Look, you've hit the bottom of the well and your writing is not as good as it can be, so you need time off and you need to think about what your - who you are, what you're singing about', so I took two years off and I just started again and I got up every morning and treat it like a job and then I found the well was full again in no time, as soon as that time has afforded me I went 'Right, I can do whatever I want for two years and it's based around music' so I was like 'what a fucking luxury', excuse my language. And now my well is actually brimming, I have more stuff than I know what to do so now I'm thinking this is the good time now, now I'm going to go 'Right, cool, I've done everything I wanted to, I'm here in Vicar Street tonight and I've always wanted to play here, always, all’ - and for this record I had a few goals, I wanted to get nominated for the Choice Prize and I wanted to play in Vicar Street and here I am, talking to you, and these are the tiny little goals that I know don't mean much to people and I don't ask for much in this life but I was like 'Right, I worked down hard on this record and this is - these are the only recognitions that I want'.
[01:02:37.03] Wow, you got them both.
Yeah, and like that's working towards it and now that I have it, I'm like 'Grand, I'm going to do something for somebody else now because I have everything I need and I don't need for anything else now, so now I'm going to do something for somebody else, I think'.
[01:02:51.12] But you don't know what it is?
No, I have to be honest, I think it's going to come to me through searching, yeah.
[01:03:03.07] I think, as well, it’ll come to you by letting people know that you're looking for it.
[01:03:08.19] It will definitely come to you.
Yeah, I have to tell my management first.
[01:03:10.10] Yeah, the people will knock on your door though and...
Yeah, that's right.
[01:03:14.03] But, you know, there could be different things going on as well, there could be, like - I'm not trying to analyze you in any way, but sometimes one can get sick of the sound of one's own voice and just kind of be like 'How much can I keep saying'.
[01:03:33.16] Or sometimes one can just be like 'Oh, my God, life isn't infinite!' Or sometimes one can be really tired.
Yeah, yeah.
[01:03:44.29] Or sometimes one can want to do something else.
God, you're right, yeah. I mean, I've been told not to throw everything I have away and that was one good advice, it was like 'Don't be jumping off and taking a spatical(?) and deciding that you're never going to play music again', so that was good advice because then I said 'Okay, well I’ll always got a grounding, I'll always have the music', but I guess, yes, I'm quite tired, I guess, after doing all of this I'm like 'The achievement is done now’, and I...
[01:04:16.12] I think it's really cool that your two goals were so Irish. It was like being nominated for Choice Music Prize and play the Vicar Street.
Yeah, yeah, like... I really don't want that to sound, like, cheap or lame or something because it was just - all I wanted was acclaim or something, rather somebody to say that your record is - no, that's cruel because there's a lot of people that should've been on the reckoning, yeah.
[01:04:51.16] Oh, yeah, you just have this - you have the ability to play all around the world, but yet it was the Irish things that they were ones you wanted, you know, I think that's really sweet.
Intrinsically, that's me down deep, I suppose, yeah.
[01:05:05.05] That's sweet. And I have no doubt that whatever it is that you do it will be special and it will help people.
Oh, man, I hope so.
[01:05:10.04] I have no doubt about that. And I'm really conscious of the fact that we've run over time and that you need to eat and digest that before you take the stage.
I suppose, yeah.
[01:05:23.20] So thank you so much for your time, Wallis, thank you so much.
Oh, my God, I have to say I've loved every moment of this and it's beautiful thing that you're doing, and thank you very, very much.
[01:05:32.18] Thank you, Wallis, you're a legend.
Oh, my God.
[01:05:35.14] Well done, well done, well done for everything.
Jesus fair-play like really that's fucking beautiful. When did you start this, like?
[01:05:46.05] November.
Oh, my God, amazing.
[01:05:47.02] The first one hasn't been out yet. I’ll tell you why I started the show and Kim Gordon from Sonic Youth, her biography was called 'Girl in a Band' and it was called 'Girl in a Band' because every interview she did the first question she was asked was 'What's it like being girl in the band?'
'What's it like being girl in the band?'
[01:06:02.04] And I've read this book, I was a Sonic Youth fan, and I was reading this book and I was reading all these amazing stuff about Kim Gordon was into, I knew none of it and I was a Sonic Youth fan.
[01:06:11.04] I was like 'This has got to stop', so that's kind of what show is about, it's just about long, slow media basically, that's the logic.
Beautiful. Needing more of that. I miss listening to a good yarn, podcasts are incredible for that, aren't they?
[01:06:31.17] Well yeah, so the thing is it's like radio, RTE radio in Ireland but podcasts around the world, that's the whole point.
[01:06:36.06] Just let people listen and I don't get to hear the type of interviews that I would like to hear, and you just don't really get a chance to have a - but even when you're friends with people you don't get a chance to have a long chat with this anyway, like to sit down and just like - that's one of the things that I love about my job is you get to do stuff that your normal life doesn't throw up, you know, you have to really know someone, really well, to sit down for an hour and really like get in there, you know?
But you're so - you have lovely vibrations you know, lovely vibrations, I'd fucking if you ask me anything - I can just see you - you're perfect, perfect interviewer, you're so open.
[01:07:21.21] Well thank you, Wallis, hopefully people will listen and will like it and I just want enough people to listen that I keep to get doing it, you know?
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
[01:07:29.21] But I'm doing on my own time so there's no pressure it's not a - I hope eventually it will become a commercial thing but this is the thing I'm doing with my discretionary time, so it doesn't have that pressure.
Yeah, It's a lovely thing. That's a very lovely thing.
[01:07:42.05] So we're starting at kind of late night on RTE and there's no pressure, there's no big - nothing, so that's the thing I wanted to creep up, you know. I'm so glad, I really feel like I caught you out of time and I...
I feel so too, I'm like 'Let's have this long conversation!' I've truly have had one of my favourite conversations in probably ever, it's been truly lovely, yeah, fair-play, really lovely.
[01:08:10.04] I mean, it's just like - I didn't bring this up earlier because I didn't want to define the thing with this, but you said an amazing thing, which was 'People should be defined by what's between their ears, not by what's between their legs.'
Did I say that?
[01:08:28.03] And I'm bringing that up now because I don't want to talk about it because I don't want to - that's not what you too(?) is about, but I think it's an amazing quote.
Thanks, I forgot that I've said that, you're making me sound clever.
[01:08:42.08] Thanks again, Wallis.
Thank you very much, thank you so much.

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